Oh I wish that headline was true – I really do.
Unfortunately it couldn’t be further from the truth. The reality is that Leopard is coming into a computing world anxious for a real improvement in the desktop environment and it looks like it may just deliver the goods.
Whereas Windows is facing a userbase that is either slowly returning to XP or not even going into the Vista world. Even as Microsoft readies Service Pack 1 for Vista preparations are underway to update XP for a longer life with SP3.
I had high hopes for Vista even though I wasn’t totally expecting to be WOW’ed as much as Microsoft was hoping for. Now however I find myself at a crossroads with Windows where I am going through the decision process of whether or not to wait for the first Vista service pack or to cut my losses and re-install XP.
As I sit at this crossroads though I am reading up on what Leopard is bringing to the table. I can almost feel the same excitement that many of the Mac users I know through blogs are feeling and I realize that it is an excitement that as a Windows’ user I found sorely lacking with the release of Vista.
I almost wish I was rich enough to afford to add a MacBook running Leopard to my home setup just so I could enjoy a modern operating system but that is as likely to happen as Steve Jobs showing up on my doorstep bearing gifts. Instead I find myself going through a mental checklist of what I am going to need in order to return to XP.
For the first time I have a feeling of being let down by Microsoft and that really sucks.
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I’ve long said that Mac software is brilliant. It’s the hardware that’s bad. If OS X was available on PC it would dominate the marketplace, Windows would be a relic of the past and Microsoft would probably be in such serious problems that they’d be forced to actually spend money on developing their software. The truth is Windows 98 was probably the best version of Windows ever, a sad indictment to Microsoft resting on their laurels and not innovating.
But the Panther to Leopard “leap” is far less evolutionary than that from XP to Vista. I use both OSs. I enjoy both… but I’m far less excited about Leopard than most of the past OS X updates. I’m still hoping that Vista “comes around” and picks up. I think that most peoples issues with Vista are because of dated and underpowered hardware. The people who are not willing to update those things are bound to stick with XP. Heck, there are still holdout with ancient hardware running Win 98.
MSFT had a real opportunity here to take advantage of the delay of OS X but didn’t. While I have Macs at home, I’m PC at work and there’s one Vista machine languishing in the corner – the department is reluctant to upgrade to Vista. It’s a given that people will upgrade to Vista but it’s going to be more like – folks buying a new PC because the old one died and Vista is on it. Wheras with Leopard, I’m gonna be in line for it and install it right away.
Okay, a Mac user (and former Windows lover) will chime in here.
First off – Javadog, who leaps from Panther to Leopard? I think you’re missing Tiger in there… OS X 10.4 is Tiger, and yes I know these cat names are getting a bit hokey.
Second – Steven, it’s so refreshing to see when someone from the ‘other side’ actually defects to the opposite side of the argument. I don’t think I could be so unbiased, I have trouble admitting MS does anything well (which they do occasionally).
I too wish Steve Jobs would read your post and come to your home bearing gifts. Once you get your hands on one, you won’t go back – at least that was completely my experience, and as I’ve stated numerous times on my site I was at the midnight sale of Windows 95, bought XP the day it came out, even Me, etc… Now I have 0 Windows PCs and 3 Macs.
Rumors have been swirling for a bit that Apple is working on a more affordable laptop, I hope for your case that is true – would love to have you on our “team”. ha ha.
As someone who’s owned a MacBook Pro for 9 months now I have to say its far from perfect. Yet it is far superior to anything on the Windows side of things. Vista is a bloated piece of junk and XP needs a refresh.
I really wish that Vista was better, but its far from. OS X is actually quite good if you use the power of *NIX that runs in the background.
Prediction: You’ll own a Mac within the next year.
I use both right now, Tiger and Vista. XP SP2 is by far the best OS Microsoft did. Tiger doesn’t blow me away, Leopard probably won’t, but I’ll go buy it. I have read a few arguments that OSX wasn’t stable until Tiger. So, how long did that take from OSX debut to Tiger’s release? Wasn’t just a year or two I bet.
OSX is not the end all be all of operating systems. I’m hoping for improvements for SP1 of Vista and I bet we will see them. I wouldn’t count Microsoft out, how many times has their death bell been rung and they are still here.
Okay Steven and the rest of you: I am using Vista Home Premium on this laptop here, and can NOT find how anybody could be so harsh as to say it’s rubbish. It is in no way worse than XP as far as I can see, and it has some very VERY nice features that I’ve found to be a nice touch and make my user experience more enjoyable. The copying system has be improved to actually show you the progress of files being copied, the sidebar is not only cool, but a very usable feature, and the (multiple) network connection and identification system has been improved tremendously, just to name some things that pop into mind right now.
This makes me wonder if maybe people weren’t simply expecting WAY too much from Vista? It seems like MS has personally failed a lot of people, by not creating an operating system that has human-intelligence AI, does all your computer chores for you, brings you coffee to bed and reads you a bedtime story at night!
I came into Vista with no real expectations… only the willingness to experience the new software and try it out, and I have been far from disappointed by the system. I realize that Vista requires quite a bit more hardware than XP does, but such is the nature of the beast. New software WILL require new hardware, because they keep pushing the limits of what can be done with the hardware. Anyone updating ANY software (be it computer games, bookkeeping software or Operating Systems) and expecting it to run just as smoothly on older hardware, is at best delusional. So I was willing to ignore the hardware requirements to Vista.. or rather, expect them and tolerate them, and not count them as a fault against the OS. Really it is a fault against the entire computer industry, which we all love… don’t we ?
So here’s the hard question for you today: What the hell is the matter with Vista ? Tell me WHAT is bothering you, (as opposed to THAT it is bothering you, like everyone keeps boasting without ever giving a reason) and let me test it on my end to see if I agree with you… because as of now, I would change my very important working machine (that must NOT fail!) at home to Vista, without a moment’s doubt.
My biggest issue with Macs is their furious efforts to make everything so proprietary. Could you imagine a world where you HAD to buy all computer-related components from Apple, and there were no alternatives? This “vendor lock-in” trap has occurred many times in the past, and it always ends up poorly for the consumer. Until they start allowing the use of 3rd party hardware, OSX is not even an option in my book. Imagine if you HAD to buy all of your hardware from Microsoft… how much would that cost you?
For this reason alone, I refuse to support the use of Macs, and I fully support FreeBSD and Linux. Windows gouges you with the software price tag, but at least I can run it on inexpensive hardware that cost me $400.
So I have to laugh at all of the “Blue screen of death” and random “freeze” problems with Leopard. Looks like they were a bit jealous of Microsoft’s past and wanted to share the embarrassment.
I wonder what my OS icon looks like.
Trash Windows Vista, XP and Leopard and install Ubuntu. I know some people despise the orange UI but Ubuntu 8.10 will have a nicer looking one.
Ubuntu’s great and all but its not as user friendly and intuitive as mac and windows. The alternatives for media players and consumer oriented video production etc… are not as easy or complete as the ones available for the other two major os’s. Installation of some programs is impossible to explain to your parents as well. Terminal would be beyond them.
Thats why the major os’s dominate user friendliness and there for the user base, because they hide all the complex stuff behind a shiny sleek pretty shell.
Yes. Linux is the underdog, Vista is the undercover agent, and Mac OS is the secret spy.
There’s plenty of stereotypes, isn’t there?
leopard is safe…and XP is fast…
vista wants more and gives nothing…on my Dell laptop with XP i can play turok or even assassins creed but in Vista…no comment…think before speak
“…For the first time I have a feeling of being let down by Microsoft…”.
BWHAHAAHA! Now I KNOW you are not a “cranky old fart” as I’m (now) 32 and have had NOTHING but problems with Windows (and I was programming before DOS existed).
Even if you ARE you old- you obviously haven’t been using computers for long!
Hahahaha! FIRST time you’ve been let down?!? Priceless, thanks for my laugh of the day!
If you think I’m alone try something called “google”- you’ll find more Q&A and fixes for Windows products then any other software companies.
“First time”- hahahaha! Love the irony! (I’m sure you must have been ironic yeah?)
I have Vista SP1 and i couldn’t be happier! Vista is such an improvement over XP. Better graphics and the speed is unbelievable. People think macs are perfect, but in reality they are far from it. Their systems are crap. If it crashes, thats it. The system is done. It doesn’t even know when it crashes. Windows barely crashes and if it does, it knows how to keep all your important info and things safe. I love Windows!
You all also have to consider how many people and computer software Windows uses. Take that into account and its amazing how well Windows works for so many people. Windows security now is almost perfect. Besides, I like choice on what I want to put on my computer and macs don’t have any choice. Horrible if you want 3rd party apps. Windows all the way!
Step 1: Upgrade your POS computer
Step 2: Grow some balls, upgrade your OS
Step 3: Learn the new OS
Step 4: Stop talking shit about something you know nothing about
Step 1: Upgrade your POS computer
Step 2: Grow some balls, upgrade your OS
Step 3: Learn the new OS
Step 4: Stop talking shit about something you know nothing about
Man, what a diliberate slam by a mac zombie. Vista is wonderful, from a guy whom, in HIS home setup, has XP, Leopard on a mac, Vista and Linux. See, some of us know how to use computers, and do so by trade. Unlike you mac shills who are merely mesmerized by your shiny media player. Oh, but it runs MS office now… DOLTS
Man, what a diliberate slam by a mac zombie. Vista is wonderful, from a guy whom, in HIS home setup, has XP, Leopard on a mac, Vista and Linux. See, some of us know how to use computers, and do so by trade. Unlike you mac shills who are merely mesmerized by your shiny media player. Oh, but it runs MS office now… DOLTS
Well I too think that windows Vista rocks
Well I too think that windows Vista rocks
I am given no option but to use vista… I want it to breakdown so I can get an XP…
I wish. I HATE VISTA, I HATE MACBOOK!!!! I've used them both. And i'm stuck on fucking vista! Windows has an upgrade option built into vista… So why can't I UPGRADE to XP?!?!?
Hazbro,
The only point I would disagree with you on is your point about Win98. Personally and with some Vista experience under my belt I think that XP SP2 has been Microsoft’s best Windows to date.
I switched from Windows and Vista enthusiastic about the brilliance of Mac that I had heard so much about. Then, I began using Tiger. You talk about pathetically primitive. So, I was again enthusiastic about Leopard in hopes that maybe I was just missing something and that Leopard would be the fantastic that everybody talks about. WRONG. This OS is HORRIBLY UGLY and again I use the word primitive, because that is what it is. I know Vista has its flaws and has been a let down but WOW; Vista IS A BAZILLION TIMES BETTER THAN THIS CRAP!
I strongly disagree with your comment.
Win 98 was a piece of shit. Who can forget the endless BSOD and hangs encountered in that O/S. There’s always some problem with apps or hardware where it crash and burn.
WinXP SP2 so far, has been a great O/S. I hardly ever get BSOD and it only happens when i do nasty tweaking to the system like overclocking too much or do some multiple partitioning and screw up the system myself.
On normal day runs, it has hardly ever failed me.
XP is a MAJOR STEP FOWARD from Win98.
And for those who demonized Vista…have you actually even use it? For me, VISTA is a pretty good O/S with very nice improvement. So far, all my hardware runs nicely and it’s very fast, and definetly not slower than XP. It’s certainly better than XP in terms of hardware requirement compare to the release of XP then. When XP was first release, most hardware can barely take it. Now most average PC (even an old Atlhon XP 1800+) can run it with acceptable performance. (but this could be today’s hardware are just too powerful)
btw, i’m triple booting my PC with XP, VISTA and UBUNTU….hopefully, i can install an *ahem* MAC O/S on my PC and make it quad-booting just for trying it out…:)
Forgot to mentioned.
I have even migrated from an AMD AM2 platform to Intel C2D platform with Vista WITHOUT re-installing the entire O/S. All i do is remove the old chipset drivers, reboot and let it install new drivers.
Let me see you do that with Win98 (or other OS..but u can’t do it with Mac coz they won’t even allow you to change the hardware! Bummer!!!).
Ha!
I truly hope that Vista comes around as well and who knows maybe by Windows 7 it maybe a great OS but at this point I’m disappointed and that is on equipment that is far from being even close to outdated. IIRC I scored 4.3/4.5 on the Vista Experience – or whatever it is called and that was due to the PCIx video card at 128meg
“But the Panther to Leopard ‘leap’ is far less evolutionary than that from XP to Vista.”
Could you make that a little more confusing?
Are you saying that Panther to Leopard is a larger leap than XP to Vista, or a smaller one?
Ditto and ditto about what Webomatica said. I too use a PC at work – I cannot tell you how frustrated it makes me. We have a couple computers in the office with Vista, but they are mainly just there so we can test on them – no one in the office likes it, and most are straight Windows users. The best reaction is indifference.
And yes, I’ll be leaving work early a week from Friday to get Leopard.
You are right Jason in that MS blew a really good opening. And I don’t blame your department being reluctant either and it wouldn’t be a move I would recommend at this point. SP1 for Vista may change that but for some reason I’m not holding out much hope it will.
I’m not so sure about ‘defection’ but maybe more of it is my nature to be open and fair with everything until they prove otherwise.
I have given Vista a good fair shot and being lucky enough through friends to have the equipment to make sure that test was a fair one. It has let me down in area that I consider to core OS operations. Some idiosyncrasies I can live with (and even joke about) but when a OS falls down over something as simple as moving large files over a network then something is wrong.
I was equally fair with Linux having tried both SUSE and Ubuntu and then settling into using it on a dual boot for just over a month. At this point I am comfortable with saying it isn’t for me. I can’t give explicit reasons as to why – it just doesn’t suit me.
I am the same way with software. Firefox I have tried since it was first available and I have never “liked” it .. can’t say why … just don’t like it. I have tried Safari and if it wasn’t for a couple of idiosyncrasies that I can’t live with it would be my primary browser. It was the same with Thunderbird .. I just didn’t “like” it.
I am sure that if I ever had the chance to work in an OS X environment there would be things about it I equally wouldn’t like however I do think that the overall OS is something that would suit me even if only reaching this conclusion through gut feelings rather than practical experience
Hopefully the SP3 for XP that is suppose to be in testing will give it a needed refresh
Chris – as much as I would really like if your powers of prognostication were in the realm of possibility I doubt muchly that I will have the money in the next year to move up to a MacBook with Leopard .. maybe by the time they release Cheetah or whatever they call the next version that might be the case but for now I’ll be hobbling along with Windows while I work out replacing dying hard drives on two machines.
Vista x64 really is rockin’ my world. What with the price of RAM, I popped in 8GBs of Corsair Dominator series PC6400 and the rest is history. Just waitin’ on the new 45nm Quads to replace my Dual-core, then I’ll move from my present 5.6 to a 5.9. My mobo is emminently upgradeable. Video? Got that covered, thanks, but I am eyeing the nVidia 8800 series. Because I can.
What do Mac people do when they want to upgrade?
I keep finding groovy features in Vista that leave me saying “yeah, cool, that’s the way to do it!” XP is just, well, XP in comparison. Same ol’ same ol.’
Speaking of cartoons, I stopped by a friend’s house yesterday to look at the cracked hinge on her Mac. So sad. What to do, what to do? Guess it’s off to AppleCare. Again. No user-serviceable parts, nosiree!
I know this thread is a bit dated, but as of February 2008 I can attest that Vista is most certainly ready for prime time. Way cool. The more I use it, the more I like it.
Just remember, kids, software runs on hardware. You get what they give you with a Mac and you pay through the nose. Both OSs have their merits, I suppose, but only one gives you freedom of choice.
OS X 10.6 is likely to be either “Lynx” or “Cougar” – “Cheetah” was the codename for 10.0…
But I’m with Chris, I NEVER would have saw myself getting a Mac about 6 months before I got one. Now I have 3 and no PCs.
My Prediction: Look out for a more affordable from Apple at some point in the next year – the one which you’ll be buying.
rather than repeat myself here are the links to previous post of mine about what I find troubling with Vista
http://www.winextra.com/2007/10/02/how-bad-is-vistas-movecopy-try-this-bad/
http://www.winextra.com/2007/09/26/dreamscene-is-nothing-but-a-waste/
http://www.winextra.com/2007/08/20/vistas-5-mistakes/
http://www.winextra.com/2007/06/28/explorer-in-vista-has-to-be-the-stupidest-program/
enjoy Arni
i agreee!!
What the hell is wrong with Vista? I have been using it since June, and heck there is NOTHING WRONG WITH IT.
The only thing was my unwillingness to use Vista when I was hunting for a Laptop for Uni. the ONLY downside. But who told my computer store manager father ordered a sony vaio for me after my begs for a lappy… it came with Vista Home BASIC.
Fine, i lived with that fact and began using it, loved it. then i realised it was too big, 15.4 widescreen is much too large to carry to uni… so he got me a smaller one.. larger one went to a computer illiterate aunty of mine… and she has had NO troubles at all using it.
I am using a vaio with vista (of course) and i have had NO problems, no crashes, (only i restarted and shut it down coz i felt weird not shutting down…) brilliantly running for everything i wanna use. download managers to adobe audition (audacrity) everything worked….
What is new needs new things, 1gig ram is wat it needs, it runs on 512.. but it is slow! put a dual core with 1 gig it is flawless… nothing wrong with it at all…
only slipup is the battery… vista does take up more battery, it is 2 hrs (20% then) when i run it on FULL brightness on the highest performance level watching videos. so that is not bad afterall, but it of course saves batteries when i put it on lower performance and dimmer lights with a screensaver on.
stop butchering Vista. nothing wrong with it. just coz u dunno how to use it and tweak it, doesn’t mean it sucks. it is brilliant. i am looking 4ard for SP1 to fix the battery.
BTW, the security is flawless… whilst everyone on my MSN list (online) got a trojan through another person.. i, the only one using vista, was sparred the problem of formatting their pc. brilliant or not? (oh i use like, avg FREE as antivirus too….)
everything now (new hardware software) bascially will support vista, and more will use vista.. same as b4.. xp was butchered and slained.. now everyone loves it…
vista is good. just some ppl never bothered giving it a good try and use the correct hardware… now with everything def. compatible.. i tell u there is nothing wrong with Vista… but you =P
Get real. I’ve been using Vista for 2 months. I’ve used every OS prior to it, and even ran a Windows ME box for 3 years straight without any problems or reinstalling the OS (have not done that since 98). My blood boils with all the idiotic garbage people spew about Vista, either because they are jealous their Wal-Mart brand computer can’t run it, or they just have a poor understanding of computers to begin with and thing the answer to every computer problem is “delete your cookies”.
Aero rocks. Moving the graphics to the GPU was long overdue. My network transfers to my XP file server are as zippy as my old XP box, I don’t have blue screens or lockups. I don’t ever want to go back to XP now that I’ve had the chance to use Vista.
Leopard? It’s probably nice if you have a Mac. It better be nice, because it and the collection of dinky apps from Steve Jobs personal goody bag are about the only things you’re going to run on it. Mac has god awful 3rd party software support.
Wow .. 2 months .. I’ve been using Vista since RC1 and I have used every windows since it was nothing but a stub used by PageMaker and Corel with the exception of WinME as several techs with more experience under their belt then I warned me away from it.
I have never said that Vista didn’t have potential or I wouldn’t be sticking with it until SP1; or that it didn’t do some much needed improvements. That doesn’t change the fact that from my experience; and people whose word I trust, Vista has some problems that need to be addressed.
As for the 3rd party support for OS X .. I am more than sure that there is a whole developer community out there who would love to make you eat your words.
At the end of it all I am glad as hell that you are having a good experience with Vista and I hope it stays that way but there are a lot of folks out there that aren’t.
I would be lying if I said Vista was the best OS but I would also be lying if I said Leopard was anything outstanding either. At best it is an update, and at worst, probably the only apple update I have been disappointed by on so many levels.
The eye candy seems more like something that you know is going to give you a cavity, in fact (you windows users would delight in this), it looks more Microsoft-like than any other Mac OS I have seen. Menus that have hidden “more” menus, a really clunky looking dock, colour schemes and new windows that look square, clunky and not designed very nicely. Lots of hype over very little. Even the space desktop looks hideous – kind of reminds me of the standard space screensaver of yesteryear.
And it seems I am not the only Mac user disappointed with the “new and improved” Leopard. Seems there are a world of complaints – but the real test of whether apple has become Microsoft-like is if they listen to the complaints or not and make changes.
They already seem to be ignoring hardware complaints and beefs (if your mac is broke, shut up, we’ll give you a new one, but you better complain really loud or “No new iBook for you!”). If they follow that trend, they will also stop ignoring their users complaints about a new OS – that as you have pointed out is a $129 minor update that we have spent quite a few times over the last few years … “a – nice!”
But don’t get me wrong, this is no love in with Vista – which I still believe has some serious flaws – I work in an educational setting with so many student Vista related issues, that is makes me gush over XP like it was the greatest OS since Windows 98
I just hope someone in the computer industry will get it all right – and millions of us will be converted with ease of use and quality control, great updates and functionality out the wazoo. Sorry someone slap me, I must have drifted off …..
azn chick,
Whoa .. slow down on the fanboy kool-aid buddy. I have been using Vista since the first RC 1 on equipment that is more than capable of running the software full tilt.
Just because you were lucky enough to have your daddy buy you a laptop with it pre installed it doesn’t mean that those of us with more computer time under their belts than the years you’ve been out of diapers don’t know what we are talking about.
Vista has flaws and like you the rest of us are waiting as well for SP1 on the hopes it will fix the worst of them.
And while it is difficult to understand stand you at point because of your over exuberance in using AOL speak to sound cool my hope is that as a university student you do a better job of studying things objectively because you certainly haven’t when it comes to Vista.
I’ve also been seeing reports about problems being faced with Java programmers on the new Leopard OS .. apparently not is all rosie there as they are having to roll back to Tiger.
How about this one?
Steve, let’s keep the “fanboi cool-aid” descriptor reserved for fanatic Mac users (“once you tried Mac, you’ll never go back”) as per the accepted convention.
Now on to business. I’m with Arni here. I also approached Vista with no expectations and have been WOWED by it. It’s not bloatware, as so many twits have claimed. It’s large and strong, secure as hell, easy-as-pie to use, and just looks and works great. It’s XP on steroids, a step up to be sure. And, yeah, those Mac commercials that are trying to convince you to buy a $2,600 MacBook Pro are right: you might need to drop a dime on some new hardware. Vista ultimate itself is less than $200 at newegg.
Your response as to what specifically you find troubling about Vista reveals a lack of literacy with the OS, with respect. One example: I know Mac users are big fans of keyboard shortcuts, so the next time you open up Windows Explorer (the ‘file manager’) try a little Alt+F action. See that menu? Tools –> Options –> View and click Apply to Folders, just like XP. Now all of your folders are set to be viewed as you like them. Computer Literacy 101.
While I enjoyed your attempt at sarcasm 101 I learned all about that fancy trick back in Win98 and have used it consistently since that point.
Here’s a bit of news for you it doesn’t work consistently in Vista. Neither does that fact that Explorer remembers it screen position and size all the time either.
So before you start making cutesy homilies about a person’s knowledge factor it might be wise to be sure that they haven’t been working with computers since before you started playing with Lego’s (which is of course an assumption on my part that you are younger than myself.)
It’s working with great consistency over here, Steve, not sure what the problem might be on your end. Yes, just opening Explorer and changing the views isn’t going to “set” them as such, a user would need to dig a bit deeper. Nothing fancy about that “trick,” though, my 6th graders can implement it with ease. They take my Computer Literacy 101 class. Wasn’t aware from your article that you had attempted same.
A homily? Please. Calm down. They didn’t have Legos when I was a kid, Steve, it was tinker toys and erector sets.
True enough “blinkdt” (how I dislike having to have intelligent conversations with smart people and not knowing their names – I feel it takes away something from the discussion) and I will apologize for any unneeded snarkyness as your welcomed comments came at a point when I wasn’t having the best of days,
As for erector sets .. mine was the old Meccano sets sent to me by my grandmother in England – now those were fun.
You, sir, are a scholar and a gentleman. My name is David and if it’s any consolation, some of my students occassionally mistake me for a prick as well. Hmmm, wonder why that is?
Of interest, was reading Apple Insider last evening and some there are having this exact same problem with Leopard: it won’t remember folder views nor window sizes, positions. Many comments about switching back to Tiger. OSs and their growing pains, always an adventure.
be careful where you spread those false rumors about me being a scholar and a gentleman … people might get the wrong impression
and yes Leopard is definitely disproving their it just works motto for a very large number of folks.
Been down that road and it wasn’t a satisfactory solution for me
Well I’m ok with Windows vista. I use it myself and wouldn’t go back to XP.
But ubuntu is the fastest of them all (OSs).
I use ubuntu on my server/desktop computer at home.